i just find it hard to believe that there are sooooo many ppl on this board and theres not one that will take 2 secs to type out if theres a relay or not cuz i know theres some pretty damn smart ppl on here.
To be quite honest with you, i’ve taken my dash out nearly hundreds of times. I highly doubt that there’s a relay. Again, it just wouldn’t make any sense to have one for those lights…
im having this same problem in my 1992 RS. i dont think its a relay tho. how do u replace the bulbs in the climate control? mine go off and i hafta hit them to get them back on.
I will try to help you out my friend. If you are completely certain that either the 1.2V or 1.4V bulbs are showing continuity and working, the next thing to look at would be the #11 fuse (15A under the driver’s kick panel). This fuse controls the dimming circuit and as such, would put out the lights you describe on many dash switches including cruise control. Check this first and let us know please.
If it isn’t a fuse and it isn’t a bulb, I would consider a bad or failing ground connection behind the dash. The ground from the dimming circuit connects directly to the chasis behind the dash (you can trace it from the switch if you run backwards from the black wire). If that connection from the dimming circuit to the chasis ground is severed, you might have the problems you’re describing. If the actual chasis ground connection itself is compromised, you would see some interesting problems:
fuel gauge, and turn signal outages
as well as most of your dash lights
(although… at a second glance, all these acc. are regrounded for safety through the fuel sending resistor unit). Now if your fuel sending unit was cooked, you could have the above circuits out.
Other possibilities??? hrmmm… For the record, there is no relay to check so don’t keep looking for one. Perhaps you could check the actual dimmer switch itself as well as the hot wire feeding it? Does the dimmer switch have any affect on any interior lights?? What about the dome light?? Does it dim this circuit??? What about the gauge cluster illumination?? If these can be regulated by the dimmer, your switch is fine.
If the dimmer switch is fine, the grounds in both locations (behind the dash and on the neutral side of the fuel sending unit) are fine, and your bulbs in all the switches giving you problems are fine, there must be an electrical gremlin at play here. We all know these little characters… They come out to play when folks wire foglights, stereos and gauge clusters bassackwards. We’ve all seen the show cars pounding over 140dB on the highway with no rear lights?? Anyway, I don’t want to make assumptions but the circuit you are troubleshooting is very basic… there are no diodes at play so the direction of flow or it’s regulation isn’t a concern here.
If you can systematically highlight exactly what’s working and what circuits are dead with the IGN on or ACC on, perhaps I could be more usefull to you. Do you have a functioning test light or dmm at your disposal??
If you want a quick test, pull the 3 wire molex plug out of the back of the dimmer switch in the dash… You should have three wires leading into the puck. Jump a wire from the red to a good know working ground, you should have all your dash lights on at full 12V (full intensity). If you jump the other wire (RED/BLK), you should have your headlights light on. If you don’t get a successful test on the RED/BLK wire, you must replace the #11 15A fuse. The black wire should always show full continuity to ground. If these test all pan out, the connections from your switch and dimming circuit are functioning. The switch itself may be bad.
If you would like a schematic of the circuit, email me and I’ll send it out to you. Please let me know if you got anywhere with any of this possible assistance.
Thanks and good luck,
Andrew.
aka neex.
all things point to the #11 15A driver’s side kickpanel fuse…
any bites on that one??
Andrew.
aka neex.
K… Well…after freezing my ASS off in the damn snow storm out there, i found out that my #11 (15A) fuse was still good and so is my #1 fuse which also says it contols the dash instruments. I tried following the ground lead off of the dimmer switch which feeds into a MASS amount of wires (about 30) that run somewhere into the dark. I dont think that is the problem. My dimmer switch does work because it dimms my gauges but not the dome lights or any other lights for that matter.
Does the dimmer control the dash lights aswell? Because if so, maybe the lead that goes to the instrument lights is dead or something and in that case all I would need is a new dimmer switch.
If theres anything else i can test out, lmk and ill do it. I do have a multimeter but barely know how to use it. I know technically how to use it but dont know too much about the diff settings i can do readings with.
Thx for your help
Did you try to ground out the 2 terminals on the plug that connects to the dimmer switch (when you pull the switch, the molex plug behind it has 3 terminals). You should get headlights with one and full bright dash with the other. If you want a ghetto way to find a decent ground, attach a wire to a key and put it in the ignition… then touch the other end of that wire to the first red connector and then to the red striped connector. Do you get a response with both of them?
This may sound stupid but I want to make sure you realize that these tests must be done with the headlight switch in the ON position. You know that the dash lights won’t come up with the headlights off right? I just want to make sure if you are testing in a lit garage that you know this.
Andrew.
aka neex.
So, just to make sure, I pull the dimmer switch from my trim panel and pull the plug off the back. From there i take a wire and stick it in the socket that leads to the black wire on the other end and ground it to the chassis. I than turn the headlights on and acc lights on by turning the knob besides the steering wheel. Than take a wire from the other two corresponding plugs to ground and if they turn on, their good. Than report back what my results were?
just makin sure…i dont wanna short anything out
Almost… Sorry if I wasn’t clear… I am very sick right now and a little off my usual self. Anyway, do as follows:
-
remove the dimmer switch from the dash panel
-
pull the molex out of the back of the switch
-
supply ground to both the red and red striped wires (do this separately for each)
-
while doing the test, make certain you have the headlight switch on
one wire grounded will give you full bright dash lights… if you don’t see this, chances are that wire has been compromised or shorted, etc.
When you described putting the black wire to ground… this won’t help with anything as the black wire IS the ground… If you want an easy way to test, get a stiff piece of wire or a paperclip or something and jumper between the black terminal and the red terminals (again… separately). This will test your ground connection as well as the two other dimming circuits.
Let me know…
Thanks and good luck!
Andrew.
aka neex.
I had another thought… If you have a bad voltage regulator in your charging circuit, you may have blown all the lightbulbs in the switches if the voltage spiked much over 15-16V. When the car is running, test voltage at the battery and make sure you’re around 14.6 or so tops.
ok well i ghetto rigged a copper wire from my key to the solid red wire, with the headlights on, and the gauge lights lighted up but still nothing from the dash lights. I than did the same thing but moved the copper from the solid red to the red/black wire and it sparked. Now when i plug the dimmer switch back in and turn the knob on to turn the headlights on, the gauge lights wont light up. I dont know what i did but i blew some fuse somewhere. I checked on the kick panel and neither #11 or #1 are blown. What a freaking headache.
neex?, Bump
I don’t have any other ideas for you my friend. About the blowing of the dash lights or dimmer. That doesn’t make sense that grounding the red wires individually did that. That test procedure is also outlined in the Helm’s manual. If you’d like, if you don’t have it, I can email you the schematics and the testing procedures? As for a best guess as to what happened or what fuse was fried… If you also lost your side markers, then you blew a fuse under the hood (#33 50A)?? I’m going to stop trying to tell you how to fix your car because now I feel responsible for the problem with further putting out of the dash circuit.
As stated previously though, there’s a light in the dimmer switch that will kill power to the circuit if it’s out… there’s a ground wire on the switch itself tied to the chasis… as well… there’s the #11 15A kickpanel fuse and the 50A #33 from the IGN circuit under the hood’s fuse block.
According to the schematics, I don’t see how anything other than a short, dead dimmer switch, or blown fuse could be causing your problems. I wish you had the car here but you don’t so I can’t help much further. I cannot believe that there’s nobody in BC that’s willing to help! Unbelievable. Any local G2ICers ready to step in and help our friend?? We need to stick together guys!
Anyway…
let me know if ANY other circuits aren’t functioning… circuits to check would be the sidemarkers, turn signals, hazards, and combination light switch (park/regular lights/high beams). Please check all these circuits and let me know.
Thanks.
Andrew.
btw… sorry it took me a bit to get back to you… I was off sick from work for nearly 3 days… broken ear drum from an infection… monumental chore of the day to roll my arse outta bed… stoned on meds… feeling not so hot for sure…
Going back and retracing my steps… You should have checked the voltage to ground on the RED/BLK wire and attached the red to ground. Attaching the RED/BLK to ground will short out one of 3 fuses. If you’d like, I can send you a pile of fuses in the mail… damn meds.
YOUR HOMEWORK
test also these circuits:
Talk about bad karma… I’m driving to a friend’s place for some parts tonight (thanks Nick!) and I lose power to the ICU, heater, cigarette lighter, and various dash lights. I haven’t looked at it yet and don’t see it taking more than 10min. to fix but it did give me another possible perspective on your problem…
Do you by ANY chance have wires lose at your power antenna? Either at the dash or in the hatch?? The reason I ask is that I think I shorted a power wire to ground in the hatch (I half-way installed a new power antenna partially stoned on various meds from a recovering sickness). I remember leaving one wire a little ‘sketchy’ and saying, “I’ll get that before I go to work”. I never did get it and I think that’s what caused my issue.
There’s a 7.5A fuse (#17 - driver’s side kickpanel) that supplies power to the ICU, heater, cig. lighter, and some dash light components. A good test to see if that fuse is out would be to try using your defroster or intermittent wiper function. Both are toast on mine so I immediately knew that the ICU wasn’t getting power.
I thought this might help you out… If not, I really do officially give up. If iyt makes any difference, I’ll let you know when I figure out exactly what happened on the drive tonight…
Strange indeed…
Lazy indeed…
Almost stranded indeed…
Andrew.
aka neex.
well i havent had a chance to get dirty and get in there yet but from what ive seen, all my underhood fuses are good, but i havent double checked any kickpanel fuses. Ill prolly just end up checking em all 1 by 1.
As for the antenna, thats kinda odd, becuase about a week ago when i got my brand new front bumped painted and side mouldings painted, me and a family friend pulled out the power antenna and just left the power and signal cord loose. Does this tell you anything?. As for the intermittent wipers or defrost, they both work. This is quite odd, and slightly dangerous. Driving at night and not knowing my speed is tough… :worry: . It also means that i cant turn my music up too loud or else i cant hear what im revving. Tomorrow after school im going to go pick up a new set of bumperlights so ill do my fuse check than. Thanks for all your help though neex, its been greatly appreciated. Im almost there.
More than interesting indeed. That’s exactly how I blew my fuse today. By have the power from the antenna short to the chasis ground in the trunk, it caused my #16 20A under dash fuse to let go. This circuit feeds the hot side of the ICU, defroster, cigarette lighter, etc. The odd thing I am tangling with now is that I knocked out my heater fan completely. I just finished checking every single fuse with a meter and for power at the block with a test light (both under dash and under hood). The ONLY one I haven’t removed yet is the 40A under dash fuselink that’s screwed in under a security cover (although I’m pretty sure I gave it a good test in place). On high the blower motor resistor is completely over riden and the fan still won’t function on high. I’m about to run a wire from the battery to the hot side of the blower itself and see if she’ll whirl. If not… I’ll be back to see you again soon Nick!
Take care and let me know. My troubleshooting will be done in about 20min. I’m glad I put that construction heater in the garage…
UPDATE:
all fixed… Sure enough it wasn’t anything more than a coincidence that the blower motor went out as soon as the fuse for the dash acc. blew. When I put 12V directly to the blower motor, it would hardly hum. I hacked out the old wiring harness and put in a new one… opened up the blower and cleaned it out… a little lube on the motor shaft and bingo. It purs like a kitten now.
While I was under there doing my Yoga moves, I came up with an interesting idea… On the front of the blower there’s already a little 2" access hole for cleaning (note: suck this dry with a shop vac to clean it out). Anyway… I thought about running some flexible ducting under the center console/shifter and then supplying some heat right behind the front seats. Just an idea but it always seems like it’s chilly right back there.
Nonetheless… now everything works… and looks pretty too. It turns out I had another molex from an old fusebox that was identical… a little solder… a little tape… some heat shrink and soom loom… off to the races.
Do it once…
Do it right…
Those under dash positions are fun in the bedroom but not so fun solo in the garage… lol
Andrew.
aka neex.
time for a nice cold Heinie…
Andrew.
aka neex.
Alright well I fixed the fuse i blew by shorting while testing the molex. Now, is it ok if you send me those helms pages on how to test? It would be greatly appreciated because im almost there.
Wow whats with our elec systems all of a sudden…jees! Good to hear that you fixed it up though.
Oh by the way, the email to send to is stefan_leal@hotmail.com
Thx again for the help
I know this sounds dum, but did you try to replace the light bulbs with known good ones? Like Neex said, it is possible that they all blew. Also the comment you said about not knowing how to properly use a meter can be a posibility that you are reading it wrong. Problems like these are likelly stupid little things that one can easily overlook. Also, as you experienced first hand, working with the wrong tools will bring you more problems. If you guys are going to work on your own cars, investing in the proper tools will save you tons of headaches. There is no better feeling in the world than running into a problem and knowing you have the tools to trouble shoot it. It always pays off at the end. Here are my tools to combat Honda electrical problems:
A good multimeter is a valuable tool in many ways. Learning how to use it and knowing the basics of how electricity flows on our cars is also valuable. Reading ohms and resistance is very important on our cars. The bible, the Helms manual is also a must have. You can learn alot by reading this book. Electrical flow charts in there are great sources of information to help combat electrical problems like yours. My Matco tools test light. This test light is the shit! I love this test light. I don’t know how anyone can work on automotive electrical without one. I’ve had it for years and use it alot. It has even made me money. This little tool has paid for it self many times. You stick the probe where you need to know what it is. If it’s ground a little green light comes on and beeps if power is flowing. If it’s a hot wire, a red light comes on and beeps. I could of found your problem within seconds with this test light. It also has a built in light that helps when you are looking for certain wires in very dark places. The last tool that you see in the pic is the small red probe. That I got from Honda of America. As you all know (I hope you all know) you cannot probe wires used for ABS or ecu. With that tool I can.
I hope this post helps you find the answer that you need and leads you in the right direction. I’m not trying to tell you to go out and buy expensive tools to fix a problem. I’m just showing you what I use in a situation like yours. In one of your posts you said “I know there are smart people out there that can help me” the only difference between you and those smart people that you speak of is that they actually picked up a book and read about it or did research. Start off by getting the wiring diagrams and follow them closelly. If neex can’t send them to you let me know and I will.
Agreed…
Agreed…
Agreed…
Very good advice on all counts! The only thing I would add to the arsenal would be a digital scope (I’d be dead and burried without my TPI meter). Also, the post about probing for sensitive circuits isn’t one you should take lightly. If you probe a yellow loomed wire with the wrong test equipment on a modern vehicle, you will likely dispatch the air bag and run yourself risk of injury or upwards of $1000 to replace the bag assy (or both). Some test equipment is ok for testing very sensitive circuits. Hypothetically speaking, if the output of your meter’s circuitry is less that the max. input of the item tested, you should be ok. That being said, unless you have a high end digital meter that specifies you can probe ICs and logic boards, etc., don’t do it.
I like that test light you have there for sure! They only thing I don’t like about it is the fact that it’s set up to plug into a cigarette lighter. If I had that light, I would solder on two beefy alligator clips (just my preference). A trick I like to use (your milage may vary) is to use the ignition as a ground. If you solder a wire to a key it works well (sort of a personal ghetto trick that I’m not advocating anyone uses).
If you don’t have any test equipment, even a middle of the road digital meter and a 12V/110V test light is a very good start. If you are really strapped for cash, you can make your own test light with a headlight, key-in reminder buzzer, etc. If you really want to cheap out, you could actually use the existing buzzer under the dash. But… as TegFreak specified, there is no substitute for having decent tools. The best tool, however, will always be found between your ears. Start with the simple stuff first, take your time, and NEVER test resistance on a live connection (you will cause your meter to die a quick and ugly death). As well, unless testing for voltage drops or something, never use the 10A setting on a meter when working on a car. You will also cook the meter.
Take care!
Andrew.
aka neex.
btw… I am DYING for a Fluke 98 scopemeter (dual trace).
Alright, so i took some more pics. This is what im suposed to be testing right?
And just to make 100% sure, this is what i see:
Indeed it is…
You still never got back to me on exactly what was out now?? I asked you if you had control of your intermittent wipers, rear defog, etc. Any idea? Did you replace that fuse I told you I shorted by doing exactly the same thing you may have done?
Thanks and good luck!
Andrew.
aka neex. 
