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recent suspension mods and ugly pic

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recent suspension mods and ugly pic

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    recent suspension mods and ugly pic

    i recently installed my ground controls, koni yellows, and upper mounts and damn there is a huge difference. i came in 2nd at the event i ran on 11/24 but i have another event this coming weekend on the 5th. my spring rates are 375F/480R and i'm lowered about 2 inches in the front and about 1.8 in the rear. anyway, i was just wondering how stiff i should run the konis. at the last even i ran 2 full turns in the rear and about 1 1/4 turns in the front. could anyone else with a set up close to mine give me some input on how stiff you run? o yea i'm also running on 14 inch azenis at 38F and 34R. btw, the car that beat was a 91 civic hatch on pretty much the same suspension setup as me. i was only about a second behind him at the last event, which is closer than i've ever been to him and i swear i'm gonna beat him soon. yea so anyway, here is a pic. (try and look past the multiple colors)
    Last edited by 2ndgnautoxr; 15 Aug 2005, 13:18:53.

    #2
    1.25+F and 2R sounds like you're close to maxed out on the adjustments.

    The EF is a lot lighter than your car so with only a ~1 second split, I think you're doing great. A local autox'r has a neat trick for autox and Azenis, but I'll let him fill you in.

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      #3
      how about you go ahead and fill me in and steal his thunder.

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        #4
        I better not.

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          #5
          Duy, are you talking about me? If so, what's the trick? Are you talking about spraying the tires down with water in between runs? We do that because the car is co-driven and therefore does twice as many runs as other cars. In my experience, I've found that the Azenis perform best when they are cold. With a single driver car, however, this shouldn't be a problem.
          As for the suspension, I run Teins with 500F/550R spring rates. I don't know how these compare to Konis, but I run them at 16/16 stiff in the front and 12/16 stiff in the rear. Also, I'm running a Progress rear sway bar, stock front bar, 215/45/16s, and lots o' camber.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Nino
            Are you talking about spraying the tires down with water in between runs? We do that because the car is co-driven and therefore does twice as many runs as other cars. In my experience, I've found that the Azenis perform best when they are cold. With a single driver car, however, this shouldn't be a problem.
            I don't know how these compare to Konis, but I run them at 16/16 stiff in the front and 12/16 stiff in the rear. Also, I'm running a Progress rear sway bar, stock front bar, 215/45/16s, and lots o' camber.

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              #7
              What are you giggling about? :p
              Here's a picture from the last event I was at:

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                #8
                other than my springs, i have a ST rear sway and stock front. i also installed the energy suspension bushing set. (uhh...the one for just about everything) i don't have "lots o' camber" but i have about 1 degree in the front and about the same in the back. i knew the trick about spraying water on the tires, me and my dad used to co-drive his 71 vega and we used to do that. anyway, i have another event this coming weekend so i'll try a few different things and let yall know how it turns out.

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                  #9
                  btw, nino, have you tried using other size azenis? if so, do you think running a larger size really helps all that much? (i'm pretty sure it does but i don't feel like spending another grand on my car at the moment)

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                    #10
                    Yeah, I was really hesitent to do the experiment also since it was pretty expensive. I've only run the 16s once at an autox and it was kind of hard to tell the difference because I didn't get a chance to run the 15s and 16s back to back. At a track day that I went to recently, I ran 15 inch Kumho MXs for the first two sessions and then switched to the 16 inch Azenis. The Azenis seemed much better, but I'm not sure if that had anything to do with the tire size, or the tires themselves.
                    Since Falken doesn't have any good sizes for next year's 16 inch Azenis(205/40/16), I would probably stick with 15s. Plus the tires are cheaper in 15s.

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                      #11
                      Oh good, he found the thread

                      Yes, I was talking about the water thing, but I didn't know thats why you did it. I just noticed that nobody else was doing it.

                      The car's looking good with those 16's on. It's too bad Falken that Falken added some 17" sizes but are stopping the cool 215/45-16.

                      You didn't like the Kumho MX then? Have you ever driven the Spec 2 Parada?

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                        #12
                        I've autocrossed a Spec-2 and its shit. My 195/60/14 Azenis kicked their ass. Check your tires with a pyrometer. I have to run my fronts at ~45 PSI to get them to warm up evenly across the tread (only -1.8* camber in front). It's a little hard to get used to at first because they just break free at the limits without too much warning, but I was faster with the higher PSI. Yes, from what I've experienced, the bigger Azenis make a HUGE difference. I'm probably going to try the 205/40/16 Azenis RT615 next season, or whatever 16" Yokohama-Advan comes out with. The new Azenis is going to be lighter because they got rid of a bunch of the steel sidewalls

                        Nino - You really should soften up the shocks in the front of the car. Read the latest issue of Grassroots Motorsports, they have a huge writeup in there on how to autox a FWD car.

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                          #13
                          Hmm, I'll have to go out and pick up that magazine. I don't know the first thing about setting up the car. We just use whatever's worked in the past.

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                            #14
                            Just for starters, go with about 1/4 stiff in the front and nearly full stiff on the back for the shocks. BTW those SSR's are hottttt.....mmmmmm

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Nino
                              I don't know the first thing about setting up the car. We just use whatever's worked in the past.
                              And you guys still go out and kick ass.........

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                                #16
                                Originally posted by chsscott
                                Just for starters, go with about 1/4 stiff in the front and nearly full stiff on the back for the shocks.
                                Is that setup used to create more oversteer?

                                Colin,
                                Get outta here. :p

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                                  #17
                                  i know this doesn't have much to do with the original topic but its my thread and "i'll do what i waant." i've replaced my DS axle twice in the past month with remanufactured axles from NAPA. the last one i replaced was just because it was shot right from the start. but just recently the one i put in about 3 weeks ago has started making that damn clicking sound when you turn from a stop. i was just wondering if it could possibly be something else that is causing these axles to go so quickly or is it that i'm just having some serious bad luck with the NAPA axles?

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Nino
                                    Is that setup used to create more oversteer?

                                    Colin,
                                    Get outta here. :p
                                    Yes, it will create more oversteer but mostly because the front will grip more. By having the fronts really stiff it feels great in fast transistions, but overall grip is reduced because in hard corners the tires roll over more. I'm assuming you already have plenty of oversteer as it is judging by how well you seem to do, but more front grip is never a bad thing. What are your camber settings BTW? What about tire pressures? My advice would be to get the front of the car to have maximum grip, then worry about the back of the car. The less steering inputs needed to get the car to turn the better. And I'm so jealous, our autox "season" is over up here in WA.

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Colin
                                      And you guys still go out and kick ass.........

                                      OMG!! I just realized you changed your SN on here....

                                      I was wondering who the hell this d00d was.

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                                        #20
                                        I'm not sure what my new alignment settings are. My co-driver got the car corner weighed and aligned and didn't get the settings written down. The last time we had it aligned the settings were:
                                        Camber: FL/FR = -3.25 degrees, RL/RR = -2.75 degrees
                                        Caster: FL/FR = 3.5 degrees
                                        Toe: Front = 3/32 out, Rear = 1/16 in
                                        The car is a bit lower now and I think the camber up front is now -3.75. Not sure about the rest. I've yet to autox the car with the new settings, but when we drove it at the track a few weekends ago, it felt great.
                                        With the 15s, we ran about 38F/32-34R. Still haven't played with the pressures on the 16s yet.
                                        I have no problems getting the back end to step out when I want it to. Actually, it took a long time to learn to control it.

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                                          #21
                                          Definitely try softening the shocks in the front. The back end should step out without too much work. Also, those camber settings seem a little much IMO.

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                                            #22
                                            Yeah, me too.

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                                              #23
                                              Ive been faster with lower pressures in the azenis. I used to run ~45 ish but now I run like 33-35 even on fast tracks and I am much faster, and the tires are waaaaaaaaay more forgiving (car is less twitchy).

                                              Ben

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                                                #24
                                                I should add that I have a GS, weighing in at 2650lbs with a 1/2 tank, 65%F 35%R weight distribution. I would correct myself and say run whatever PSI warms your tires evenly on that specific day. Personally, I like the higher PSI in the front as it gives me better response and helps my tires warm faster because of the huge sidwall and lack of camber. I would definitely run less PSI if I had more camber and a smaller sidewall.

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                                                  #25
                                                  If I can jump in with some questions here.
                                                  Nino- How do you get 3.25 deg. of NEGATIVE camber with a 206/16? The tire must be close to the arm with that much. Yes? No?

                                                  Sping rate of 400 now. Going to 600 maybe even 650. Any thoughts?

                                                  I have noticed with about 26-28 psi in the rear and the konis at full stiff. That for me gets the rear to rotate pretty nice. Now, after reading the Grassroots article, the Neon hey ran is DS the had 65 psi!!!! What the hell!!!

                                                  On an info note. I'm looking to keep the 15 x 7 wheels and run the 225/50 in front and last years 205 in the rear. Also running with a co-driver. Here at Atwater wherewe run, keeping these things at the least cool, is hard enough. We spray tires every chance we get. Even as we roll up to stage. Someone needs to invent a portable ice/water box the role through for the Falkens.

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