Auto-x STS attn. Chsscott,Shenrie and others...

INFORMATION G2IC Archives
1

Anyone can input to this thread really but I know that Chsscott has delt a lot with STS and Im sorry that I don’t know your name.

This is my first official season of auto-x and I’m looking for some pointers, not just for driving but mods for the car as well. I am racing my 91 RS and I have read the rules about 20 times. I think Im maxed on motor mods having I/H/E and a FPR. So far suspension wise, I have adjustable shocks and coilovers with both front and rear strut bars, 19mm rear sway and a lower tie bar. I have 11lb wheels with falken azenis’s. Next up I want to put in a roll bar and a 5 point harness so I won’t move around so much. I really would like some advice on what to do next or what set-ups have worked for others. Its really hard getting advice from local guys since the majority race Miata’s or STI’s. I finished 7th out of 10 in the first event and 10th out of 28 in the novice. I know I won’t be competitve my first year but I think there is a lot of room for improvement. The next event for me isn’t until May 13th but I really would like to be more prepared this time so all input is welcome. Thanks all

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Personally, I know this is going to sound lame to some, seat time, seat time, seat time. Drive your car as hard as you can. Ask an experience driver to drive with you and then have that person drive your car. It will amaze you. Don’t ignore the drivers because of what they are driveing compared to yours. A lot of those drivers have been in many different cars and can help.I know you said you didn’t really needed driving advise, but in autocross that is where it starts. Learn what you are capable of doing with the car.

If you are looking for a mod, my first sugestion would be a camber kit to get you the most negative camber available. I am using the Ingals arm pivot kit. Not the extreme kit. That is made to give you more positive camber. You want the top of the tire closer to the car than the bottom.

Good luck and have fun!

3

Also I would nix the roll cage. The weight added is not going to help. Get a good 4 point harness like Schroth, Sparco.etc. and just bolt it in. I am using a Schroth ASM 3 point. Love it!

4

As previously mentioned…seat time, seat time, seat time. No need to mess with car setup until the car setup is actually a restriction to running quicker times. If your region has a Novice school that would be a great chance to get a lot of seat time in a single afternoon for not a lot of money. Another great source of learning is the Evolution Autocross Schools, probably the best money you will ever spend on autocrossing/learning how to drive! Really, it doesn’t matter what vehicle you drive once you have a firm grasp of what it takes to be fast on course; whether it be in a truck, FWD hatchback, or RWD sports car.

Wouldn’t bother with 5-point harness unless you already have seats that will properly work with a 5-point harness. Rollbar would be a good investment for the future though, especially when considering a 4-point harness.

5

This is gonna sound really ghetto (cause it sort of is). Get some 2" webbing (like this), length will depend on how big you and your seat are (6’ was a tad long for me, but too much is better than not enough) and a set of dual slide release buckles like these. Run the webbing around the back of the seat and around the front of your chest and as high up as you can under your arms. Tighten it down to the point it’s about uncomfortable as you can take it and bingo, you’re cinched in your seat and ready to take the tight turns. Simple, effective and most important, it cost me $4.50.

One more step i’m taking in my Camaro is to take a manually adjustable middle lap belt out of any car and bolt it under the factory three point belt (cause the factory belt only ratchets tight in quick sudden movements). The middle rear seat in my DB1 has such a belt, so that’s where i got mine. Tighten the lap belt, tighten your poorboy chest belt and you’re pinned in the seat and good as any five-point harness. I got this tip from a guy who has run this ghetto setup and also a roll-cage with five-point harness and he says the ghetto belt setup holds just as well. It works for me, too. I’m not sure how you’d be able to use the lap belt trick on the 'teg, though.

You can get the webbing and buckles at a lot of places, i used the REI links cause that’s where i got mine. Just remember when you buy the webbing to have enough to be able to grab on to the ends to tighten it down. I found it better to put the chest belt on, tighten it as tight as i could, then un-hook the buckle and shorten the belt a bit more then snap it back on. Oh yeah, don’t be stupid, this is only to hold you in the seat for hard corners, this will not save your ass in a big wreck, it’s for auto-x use only since all you’ll be hitting are pylons. Wear your car’s normal seat belt over this!

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You’re right, it does sound really ghetto. It has to be the most innovative idea I’ve seen in quite a while…props to you, sir. :bow:

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I’m doing my first full season in Open STS. Going from novice class to open STS, I’m trying to figure out where I can find speed to get competitive times. The season is still young…

I think you done almost everything you can to your car to succeed.
Now its just time to work on stuff like finding the right tire pressures and suspension settings more importantly working on your driving, hand position, looking ahead, and corner approach/exit, slalom approach…etc.

For tire pressures, I look to people running front wheel drive cars with the same tires. I actually got a lot of help at my first event, I was going to run 31/29psi (what I ran all last year), but when I talked to one of the fast guys running a CRX in ST2 (but also using falkens), he told me that he was running 40/38psi. I tried it the tire settings and the shoe polish marks on my tires came out perfect, and it saved me from totally chewing up my new set of tires.

Here’s a thread I started on tire presures http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128930&highlight=AutoX

If you already haven’t seen this, take a look at this site. Good info.
http://www.dmvrscca.org/topten.htm

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Well, I saw the post kinda late, but everything I woulda said has been covered. It all boils down to seattime though, just like mentioned above.

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Andy Hollis knows how to drive a fast STS car, and so does his wife Ann… both are very good driving instructors also (fortunate to have had both as instructors in different Evolution Autocross schools). Andy will tell you that you can raise or lower the tires pressures to induce more oversteer/balance - the difference being in how the tire responds to inputs/course conditions. Higher PSI rear is the more “friendly” setup usually…

In our Integra setup we run the tires (Hankook 205/50-15 RS-2 Z212’s) at right around even pressure 36/35 psi front/rear normally. Basically you should just set tire pressures to where they respond well and don’t roll over the tread then leave them alone and work on driver…

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How do you like the z212’s? I just got a set and won’t have a chance to put them to the test until the 9th of April.

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theres no need to go buy a harness… i learned this trick from a guy that has been running his 92 gs for about 4 years… the stock seat belts when set up right can act as a harness. as you kno the stock belts lock up and stay locked with force, you can trick them to stay like this. start by pushing you seat back 2 or 3 notches farther back then normal and then lean it back one or 2 clicks back. undo the automatic belt and leave it alone. take the lap belt and pull it out to about 2 inches from snaping it in place and start jerking on it really quick and it should lock up. then while keeping it locked click it in and then move the set forward. the belt should be sung and stay locked. next is the chest belt. doing the same concept get the belt to lock. i found it locks up easyer if you hit the little box it rolls up into. once locked snap it in place. then lean the set forward again. you should be straped in pretty tight now.
i hope this helps i might get some pics of it later. maybe even do a write up.

you should have no problem keeping up with sti’s. my friend has the same mods as you and just takes the spare and tools out. it really depends on the driver. out of 50 cars of all classes he came out 3rd overall

12

Okay sorry I don’t feel like reading though this long winded thread.

Here’s my take on setting up an STS Integra.

STS is dominated by 89-91 Civic Si’s. They have less power than the Integras, but they’re way lighter. They shame the same suspension geometry, so the DA is definitely not a bad choice for an STS car. First priority should be the suspension, and getting the car to handle well. Second priority is taking weight off the car. Third priority is power.

First thing you need to do before anything else is suspension. You want Ground Control coilovers and Konis AT LEAST. I race on Skunk2 coilovers and Tokico Illumina shocks and GC shock mounts. It sucks.
Here’s what you need for your springs and shocks:
94-01 Integra front shock forks and 94-01 Integra Koni shocks
Ground Control coilover sleeves with Koni adapters. Spring rates 450 front/550 rear for starters.
Ground Control shock mounts, because when you lower the car enough, you’ll be hitting the bumpstops and messing up the handling.
You need to get a bigger than stock rear sway bar, Suspension Techniques makes a 19mm bar, and Progress makes a 22mm bar.
The ST is a direct bolt-on, and I personally didn’t like it as much as the Progress.
The Progress is not a direct bolt on. It’s a better sway bar, get this one.
Get Ingalls camber kits for the front, not the extreme ones that only add negative camber. Get adjustable upper control arms for the rear too.
Put new rear trailing arm bushings in, Mugen ones work best. Put an Energy Suspension master kit on the suspension.
Once you get all that, get an alignment from a road race shop that knows how to set up Hondas for autocross. Also, get the car corner weighted with you in it. If you do all that, the ride height and camber will be adjustable.

So now that you have the suspension set up for local competition, you need to get some wheels and tires. You need at least 7" wide wheels, and 15 or 16" wheels. You might as well buy something lightweight, don’t waste your time or money unless it’s really inexpensive. Rotas are pretty good bang for the buck.
Wheels:
15x7, 15x7.5, 16x7, 16x7.5
Tires:
205/50/15 Kumho ECSTA MX
205/50/15 Falken Azenis RT615
215/45/16 Hankook RS2 Z212
215/45/16 Falken Azenis RT615
Don’t bother with anything other than what I listed. I prefer the 215/45/16 Azenis, because they’re .4" wider than the next widest tire listed.

Okay so it handles nicely, start ditching everything you can within the rules.
Ditch the AC. Get an Odyssey PC680MJT battery. Change the seats out with something that you fit in, and weighs just barely over 15lbs. There’s other things you can do, but get the car as light as possible.

Okay now for power. Buy brand name stuff. Most of it has dyno time on it, and generally it will all work okay together.
AEM or Injen CAI, Tanabe racing medallion exhaust, Greddy or DC sports header, Unorthodox racing underdrive pulleys, and some sort of ECU reprogram or an Apexi SAFC. Get it all dyno tuned, and you should be around 130-140 whp.

Hope this all helps.

Oh yeah, ARCHIVETHIS

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Seat time makes your times drop, but if you’re looking to win in a Non-Stock class you need the car for it. Both go hand in hand.

I like my RS2’s, I run 34-36psi front, 30-32 rear.

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haha. Thanks. It really works well and it’s easy to take from car to car if needed. :burnout:

15

speaking of seat time, i am selling my sparco bucket seat (8-9lbs) & megan 4pt harness’. both are new, just been in the garage for a bit. i have new stuff so no need for these anymore. just thought you might be interested in them and could put them to use better than I.

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Sorry to be off topic (kinda), where is everyone getting their GC coilovers with custom spring rates?

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Ground Control

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Yeah, if you call GC up you can order custom-rate springs (and custom length, for that matter).

…say chsscott, would you recommend a little less tire pressure in the rear for a mere ST swaybar vs. the Progress one that you’re using? I’ve just got my new rear bar in and I’m hoping to get to the test-and-tune tomorrow in Waterloo, IA with a little more knowledge than guesswork. :slight_smile:

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You can get the car to rotate by either raising or lowering pressures significantly.

One end of the spectrum makes the tires lose grip very progressively

The other end makes the tires grip well up until the limits, then lose grip very fast.

If I recall correctly, low pressures make them very progressive.

But, I wouldn’t mess with pressures if you can avoid it. What are your camber settings?

20

My front camber is about -2.5 degrees each side in the front and about -0.4 degrees each side in the rear. I don’t have a provision for front camber adjustment (my kit kept sliding out of adjustment, so I schwanked it). The car already had fairly good oversteer once the brakes were applied lightly mid-corner, but I’m hoping for a little smoother feel (it used to be like an on/off switch). I’ve got about 13 hours and counting until registration…should be fun to get the old beast out again.