air coming from oil dipstick

system · November 19, 2004, 8:03pm

I recently built my motor from the bottom up. I used all new parts. When I first started my car, i didn’t have the oil dipstick in. I immediately felt air coming from the dipstick. In teg tips on leakdown testing it says if air is coming from “Oil dipstick, Oil filler cap (if you have your valve cover on), breather, or crankcase duct: piston rings are worn.” My piston rings and pistons are brand new. Could my engine just need to be worn in or is their a problem with my rings?

system · November 19, 2004, 8:19pm

did you do the ring break-in procedure? search for it - it is a number of accelerations and decelerations to cause the rings to wear perfectly to the cylinder walls.

Armed_Ferret · November 21, 2004, 3:28am

if your car requires any sort of tuning, you don’t want to drive the untuned engine/ecu for ANY period of time other than putting it on the trailer to take it to the dyno for tuning. break it in on the dyno.

or at least that’s what earl laskey, crew chief/engine builder for the laskey racing team, and a guy who has been building engines for FAR longer than our cars have even existed, has said numerous times.

earl:

Do I need to drive it 500 miles before I tune it? Absolutely not. How about 50 miles? No. Perhaps the best thing to do is to drive it all the way to your trailer and tow it to a competent tuner. In second position on the “things NOT to do list” is trying to break in an un-tuned engine by driving it. Too lean an air/fuel will begin to heat and distort parts, too rich will wash the oil off the cylinders causing premature wear. What is in first place on the “things NOT to do list”? Boost on an un-tuned motor. Within 2 to 3 seconds the pistons and cylinders can be ruined.
Well I did put in a new base map or I’m just running off the stock Honda computer. Can’t I drive it like that for a few miles? I’m not even boosting. Well what is the base map? Just someone’s idea of what numbers will start your car. Just an educated guess by someone who does not have a clue what components you are running in your set-up. It’s not intended to drive on for any extended period of time. The same with that stock Honda computer. It could be ok but it could also be dangerously wrong.

system · November 25, 2004, 2:01pm

It takes approx 500 miles (give or take) for the rings to seat properly - so on a brand new engine, that’s normal. Follow normal break in procedures for a new engine and it should go away, though expect some oil consumption for the first 500 miles. Don’t beat on the engine at all until it’s broken in - but also don’t keep the RPMs in one spot for any length of time (no highway driving).

Also change the oil after about 500 miles.

Armed_Ferret · November 25, 2004, 2:45pm

15-20 years ago, with SBC/BBC’s, yes it does.

these days with the light-year leaps in manufacturing and tolerances able to be gotten with internals, 3-4 dyno runs is all it will take for the rings to seat.

earl has built probably 200-300 engines and broken them in on the dyno with zero ill effects. 75-80% of them are daily-driver engines, not race engines. i know for a fact of at least 25 people who are running engines built and broken in by earl that have had them for 6 or 7 years now with ZERO problems.

seems like the right way to break it in to me. :shrug:

but then, earl probably doesn’t know as much as you right?

system · November 25, 2004, 2:52pm

Good point - I stand corrected. The only engines I’ve ever built have been small block Chevy and Ford motors, and a couple of lawnmower engines… where tolerances are measured in “can your thumb fit between the journal and bearing?”, not millimeters

I still think it’s a bad idea to flog the shit out of an engine within a week or two of it being built though; with the tighter tolerances I’m sure the rings do seat much faster, but I’d rather be make damn sure those rings seat properly. Driving it with varying RPMs without any WOT redline runs for a few weeks after it’s built seems like it can’t do any harm, right?

Armed_Ferret · November 25, 2004, 2:57pm

if it’s n/a, you might be able to get away with it, but i personally am not going to do that.

boosted? FUCK NO. if you can’t guarantee that you have the correct amount of fuel going into that engine under boost, regardless of whether you’re at WOT or not (a turbocharged engine doesn’t need to be at WOT in order to see boost), you run such a high risk of blowing up that engine you either just built or just paid a shitload of money to have built. not worth it at all.

now, if you want to run a boosted setup, but decide to break it in with larry widmer’s way WITHOUT the boost components attached, i.e. n/a, then that’s more acceptable and i’ll stfu.

system · November 25, 2004, 3:05pm

… I was assuming that “issues” had been worked out before and we were talking stock or close to stock motors.

I’m clueless when it comes to boost though, since I’ve never owned a boosted car.

Armed_Ferret · November 25, 2004, 3:09pm

okay it looks like we just weren’t on the same page cause we didn’t clarify some details first.

close-to-stock: drive it nicely for a while, changing the oil at 100, 250, 500, 1000, 1500, 3000 miles. by that time, you should definitely be able to get on it.

n/a built engine: recommended to get it on the dyno for breakin, but not necessarily ABSOLUTELY required. if you can’t get on the dyno right away, just make sure to get it a good rich basemap or ecu chipping to make sure you don’t lean out while breaking it in.

boosted: break it in on the dyno. no arguments to the contrary. dyno or nothing.