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brand new rings car is smoking?

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brand new rings car is smoking?

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    brand new rings car is smoking?

    wats up heres the deal my motors been together 2 months now has brand new seals gaskets rings..they are oem rings on je pistons with eagle rods the head is fully built . car smokes a lil wen i get on it looks like blue smoke to me everyone ever had something like this happen to them ..also block was honed and resurfaced could it just be from the forged pistons

    #2
    Originally posted by acuralover View Post
    wats up heres the deal my motors been together 2 months now has brand new seals gaskets rings..they are oem rings on je pistons with eagle rods the head is fully built . car smokes a lil wen i get on it looks like blue smoke to me everyone ever had something like this happen to them ..also block was honed and resurfaced could it just be from the forged pistons
    did u do the build urself? or have a shop do it? either way i suggest u do a leak down test to figure out where u are leaking from.

    also how long has it been smoking?

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      #3
      Mine is doing the same thing. Fully rebuilt B20vtec 1300 miles ago, RS Machines Pistons with Arias rings. Most of the work done by a respectable machine shop, assembly by myself. It only does it under heavy acceleration, and only for a second or so. My wife said it looked more like white-ish or grey-ish smoke though when I had her watch for it. I'm wondering if it might be blow-by on my setup since I haven't installed a crankcase vent for it yet..

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        #4
        not sure on ur issue. but a crankcase breather is a very good idea. but some ppl go around that and put their own setup (which i dont recommend but i also do not build frankensteins). if i were u i'd do a compression test first. then a leak down test if u do find some weak compression values.

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          #5
          everything was done by the machine shop. yea my does at under a heavy load also..it could be alot worse rite now also becuz my cars not tuned and air./fuel is not mixed perfect that could have something to do with it. but is this known do to with forgeed pistons also pistolns were used on my last block

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            #6
            its been smoking since i first started up the car.ive only driven the car literally like 30 miles if that maybe i need to break them in

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              #7
              well some smoking during break in is somewhat normal. i think that is why some shops break in the motor for u. they break the motor in at about 1500 rpms for like 20min or something. i know that is what we have to do when i built a 350, the manual said to keep it in that rpm n everything for like 20min. so....... i dunno.

              but regarding the rings..... was the ring gap ok when u installed them? like did u measure it?

              Comment


                #8
                Ya, I've been meaning to do a compression test but haven't had the time lately. Acuralover, you probably do need to put some miles on that motor, they aren't going to break in until you do. Could very well be your issue.

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                  #9
                  it didnt touch the rings the machine shop put my short block together..and yea im just waiting on a fan my cars overheating..is it true to break in pistons ring u got to beat on em or engine break alot alot of people in the city say different shit

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                    #10
                    6 of one, half a dozen the other. Old school engine builders say to keep it under 3500 rpm for the first 500 miles, 4500 rpm from 500-1000 miles, and 5500 rpm from 1000 to 1500 miles. Others say to get into it pretty much right away and break it in hard. I went with both. Waited a few hundred miles to go over 3500 rpm, then rapped it out up to a 6500 rpm a few times to make sure the rings were set. Since then, I just drive normal and get into it when I feel like it. I would definitely either get a tune, or get a wideband and tune myself. You don't want to run overly rich for too long during break-in. Too much extra fuel can keep your motor from breaking in properly. I'll try to do a compression test soon and post my results so you can see how my break-in worked out.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      sounds good ....let us know

                      Comment


                        #12
                        its like a clutch...... do u think beating on it right away after getting it is a good thing?

                        either way both of u still have to do the compression test.

                        acuralove: so who put the rings in ur motor and who picked them? rings aren't just rings...... things need to be measured b4 u purchase rings. and for u to be running on the motor already after u built the motor pretty decently..... is not recommended at all. build then tune then drive..... but thats just my $0.02

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                          #13
                          yea like i said i jsut bought the oem rings because you can use just about any kind of rings with je piston and then i had the machine pput the short block together. yea i dont drive it around all the time ..its been sitting in my garage for a while ..everytime i touch the car i take it for a spin to see how i made out ..but as far for the tune i mite have a spot for the dyno this saturday ill post my papers im not hoping for to much ill only gna be pushing 8 pounds on a big turbo..im also im gna be shifting around 7k until i put 500plus on the motor then it will see 8.5K

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by acuralover View Post
                            yea like i said i jsut bought the oem rings because you can use just about any kind of rings with je piston and then i had the machine pput the short block together. yea i dont drive it around all the time ..its been sitting in my garage for a while ..everytime i touch the car i take it for a spin to see how i made out ..but as far for the tune i mite have a spot for the dyno this saturday ill post my papers im not hoping for to much ill only gna be pushing 8 pounds on a big turbo..im also im gna be shifting around 7k until i put 500plus on the motor then it will see 8.5K
                            well was the ring gap measured tho after u put the rings on to be certain? if there is too much gap or too little u can have issues, like u are experiencing now. there are specs for everything. and just cuz u got oem rings doesn't mean it'll still work with a motor. the clearances might be too far for oem spec, and that can give u lower compression due to a bad seal around the piston, that can cause oil to get past all 3 rings and cause smoking. many issues can be caused by it.

                            but thats all i gotta mention about this.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              yea thats were i messed up..the block was at the machine shop getting honed with the pistons and i brought them the rings , i should have seen for myself if it sealed properly..which is the case now clearly..ive had oem rings on my je's before ,on a block that was not freshly honed out and i never had smoke or any problem at all

                              Comment


                                #16
                                and of course i cant go back there and be like you fucked my shit up ..they will just say its supposed to smoke its a built motor blah blah blah and go on and on with different excuses..if they seen that it was a loose fit they should have contacted me.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by acuralover View Post
                                  and of course i cant go back there and be like you fucked my shit up ..they will just say its supposed to smoke its a built motor blah blah blah and go on and on with different excuses..if they seen that it was a loose fit they should have contacted me.
                                  think of it this way..... from their perspective, if it smokes and u come back, its not their fault, so then they get to charge u more and get more from u, money and work.

                                  after putting the pistons in, u can't tell that the bore is too big for the piston n rings without measuring it. the rings itself will make the piston sit decently nice inside the bores. what the key is...... measuring the piston ring end gap (the part the ring is cut). that gap has to be measured to see if its the right rings. also........ the rings needs to be measures inside the ring lands. that alone can cause big problems if the gap is too far out of spec. not sure on the exact spec, but i think .003" is the most it can be or something.

                                  there's a lot of measurements and specs to look at when building a motor right. putting together a stock motor with stock components should also be measured too, not just high performance motors.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    see if the shop can tell you exactly what they did when they put it together.

                                    breakin far as im concerned . . . seat the rings as fast as possible, and drive it the way it'll be driven the rest of it's life.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      if all they replaced was the rings on the piston then you should get your head checked. the valves has a rubber o-ring before the vavle retainers that keeps the valves lubed to a minimum. if it gets worn or broken off, oil leaks into the the compression chamber thru the valves. depending on how long it took to get the engine work done. the o-rings could have dried up and be needed to change. its the most easiest part of the head that is overlooked at when rebuilding and engine.

                                      ed

                                      2-cents

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        /jack
                                        just out of curiousity how do you measure ring-wall gap on the piston? since ima be building a performance motor soon i will need to do this to make sure.
                                        i don't wanna have issues once it's done lol
                                        /end jack

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          u need to mic the piston, then u need to get a dial bore gauge and measure the bore. u have to measure the piston in the specified location (see helms manual). then u gotta check the cylinder bores for taper and out of round. after all that is figured and whether u can still use the oem piston or not. once u got the piston, u get the rings... install the rings onto the piston, measure with a feeler gauge into the ring lands with the rings in them. can't have too much space. once u got that..... then u install the pistons with a ring compressor into the block. then from there u find the gap of the single ring on top.... and measure how much space is there. there is a spec. make sure its in spec and if it is then u are good to go and proceed farther. its all mentioned in the manuals.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by rc51ed View Post
                                            if all they replaced was the rings on the piston then you should get your head checked. the valves has a rubber o-ring before the vavle retainers that keeps the valves lubed to a minimum. if it gets worn or broken off, oil leaks into the the compression chamber thru the valves. depending on how long it took to get the engine work done. the o-rings could have dried up and be needed to change. its the most easiest part of the head that is overlooked at when rebuilding and engine.

                                            ed

                                            2-cents
                                            basically he's saying that the valve guides could be an issue. to figure this out for sure a leak down test must be performed.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Did a compression test today, and got 160 psi across the board. The psi seems kind of low to me for a RS Machines 12.5:1 piston, but they are all the same, and it was a cheapy autozone compression tester that I used. When I did the test, it was WOT with the ecu unplugged and all the plugs out. Cranked it over exactly 5 times on every test, and tested each cylinder 3 times. Do these numbers seem low to anyone else?

                                              Edit: In case elevation and weather matter, I'm at around 500 feet above sea level, the weather today was a scorching 103 degrees with 33% humidity and a barometric pressure of 29.89 inches.

                                              Edit 2: The engine was cold. Hadn't started it for about 2 hours.. That might be why it was so low.
                                              Last edited by ninezeroteg; 26 Jun 2009, 00:36:26.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                160psi is no ttelling you your pistons are working or not working. that number is telling you how well each cyl is holding pressure in it.

                                                normally i would say if the numbers are all the same you're ok, but being that you just built the thing. you should have numbers in the 200 range or higher. put a little oil on top of the pistons and do the test again.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by icemanGSR View Post
                                                  160psi is no ttelling you your pistons are working or not working. that number is telling you how well each cyl is holding pressure in it.

                                                  normally i would say if the numbers are all the same you're ok, but being that you just built the thing. you should have numbers in the 200 range or higher. put a little oil on top of the pistons and do the test again.
                                                  yea. i agree with iceman. u should have higher numbers than that. i hope those pistons are legit tho.

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