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b17 rods????!?!?!?!

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b17 rods????!?!?!?!

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    b17 rods????!?!?!?!

    Okay so far I have a compression issue for one cylinder. It appears to be the rings, as I put a tiny bit of oil in the cylinder to check and sho'nuff it came up.
    so...
    Ima buy some pistons (probably the wiseco 12:1 set) along with some cams and dual coil springs, but I don't wanna put a whole bunch of hp through on some stock rods. Yea b17 rods are pretty strong to start but ehhh they're stock heavier than necessary and old...very old.... lol.

    So I want to pop some rods in there. I've found 2 companies that I know for sure will make rods for it: Crower ($762) and Pauter ($950~)
    I know you get what you pay for, but I am not aiming for anywhere near the horse power they're said to be stable up to.... I would like to get some eagle h-beams but so far have been unable to verify either way if the do or do not make them. I have found 2 websites claiming to carry them but cannot find a part number listed. I've looked through eagles catalogs and haven't been able to find any that even have the same dimensions...

    HELP!!!111
    I need to know if eagle makes rods for a b17a or if someone else does that doesn't cost an a$$load!!?!

    #2
    Originally posted by teggyguy View Post
    Okay so far I have a compression issue for one cylinder. It appears to be the rings, as I put a tiny bit of oil in the cylinder to check and sho'nuff it came up.
    so...
    Ima buy some pistons (probably the wiseco 12:1 set) along with some cams and dual coil springs, but I don't wanna put a whole bunch of hp through on some stock rods. Yea b17 rods are pretty strong to start but ehhh they're stock heavier than necessary and old...very old.... lol.

    So I want to pop some rods in there. I've found 2 companies that I know for sure will make rods for it: Crower ($762) and Pauter ($950~)
    I know you get what you pay for, but I am not aiming for anywhere near the horse power they're said to be stable up to.... I would like to get some eagle h-beams but so far have been unable to verify either way if the do or do not make them. I have found 2 websites claiming to carry them but cannot find a part number listed. I've looked through eagles catalogs and haven't been able to find any that even have the same dimensions...

    HELP!!!111
    I need to know if eagle makes rods for a b17a or if someone else does that doesn't cost an a$$load!!?!
    i thought that the b16 rods were the same as the b17 rods. just a slight difference in height and stuff, and the crankshaft was a bit diff but we ain't talking about the crankshafts.

    nothing wrong with going with b16 aftermarket rods. if i'm wrong ppl can correct me on that.

    Comment


      #3
      I've gone through numerous forum posts and seen this quite a few times and have seen it being corrected. The b17 rods are quite enough different that going with the higher compression pistons it could be catastrophic. I've got the exact measurements:

      Acura Integra 1.7 VTEC DOHC (B17A 1992-93) 5.208" 1.890" 0.935" 0.826" (21mm) 0.900"

      Thanks for responding! =)

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by teggyguy View Post
        I've gone through numerous forum posts and seen this quite a few times and have seen it being corrected. The b17 rods are quite enough different that going with the higher compression pistons it could be catastrophic. I've got the exact measurements:

        Acura Integra 1.7 VTEC DOHC (B17A 1992-93) 5.208" 1.890" 0.935" 0.826" (21mm) 0.900"

        Thanks for responding! =)
        ??? maybe u misunderstood me. UPGRADED eagle rods that are for the b16 or b18c could be an option. catastrophic would be if u did all this raising of the compression and never took the motor to a tuner and ran on 87 octane.

        a slightly different length rod wouldn't change your compression much (if any), it would affect the stroke. obviously if it didn't go as high as a b17 rod the compression would just be slightly less than it would if u did have a b17 rod. shotpeening ur b17 rods and getting them knife-edged can do lots for them too. some arp rod bolts are a must too.

        Comment


          #5
          Yes I definitely was considering a shot peen and knife.

          So you're saying that you think the b16 rods will fit the crank for the b17? What about the bearings would those need to be different?

          ARP is DEFINITELY a must! lol
          Got the head studs already

          Do you know anyone that does reputable shot-peening? What's the $ amount for that?

          ~~~EDIT~~~
          Looks like the b16 rods are about 4mm longer.
          Last edited by teggyguy; 15 Jun 2009, 01:08:36. Reason: b16 rods:

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by teggyguy View Post
            Yes I definitely was considering a shot peen and knife.

            So you're saying that you think the b16 rods will fit the crank for the b17? What about the bearings would those need to be different?

            ARP is DEFINITELY a must! lol
            Got the head studs already

            Do you know anyone that does reputable shot-peening? What's the $ amount for that?

            ~~~EDIT~~~
            Looks like the b16 rods are about 4mm longer.
            ok at least u figured out whether they are longer or not. b17 rods..... *thinks* i know other rods can fit, whether they fit ur crankshaft depends on bore that end of the connecting rod. so a dial bore gauge and mic will come in handy.... or some plastigage (a whole lot cheaper). but mic and dial bore gage is what is very accurate.

            regarding shotpeening....... doesn't golden eagle do that? i believe most machine shops have that capability. and same goes for the knife-edging. i'd look for a local machine shop and inquire with them to get real quotes.

            Comment


              #7
              update.

              i remember reading an article in honda tuning or super street or something where they built a b16 turbo with up to about 500+ hp. i know its not that big of a deal, but they built it on a stock block EXCEPT for the piston cuz there was no way in hell a stock piston was gonna be able to handle that. but they wanted to prove that a b16 with stock rods with arp rod bolts was gonna be able to hold and perform when mated with a built head and forged pistons on a turbo build.

              it was proven and everything BUT the amount of time they spent on tuning will burn a hole in ur wallet. they had to up everything in such small increments so that they did not detonate and also so that the stress on the motor could be controlled and minimized. but they were able to do it. so if anything i say shotpeen urs, get it all done if anything and u'll be able to maintain the use of ur rods, and make sure u keep them in the right order so that u dont' have to worry about which spot it goes into on the crankshaft. then u can just replace the bearings, to get the right clearances that u want and need.

              it shouldn't be much trouble at all tho.

              Comment


                #8
                I personally wouldn't upgrade the rods unless you're going turbo. The stock rods will be fine on an NA engine.

                Changing rod length will not change stroke. Stroke is dictated by the crankshaft. You do not want to change the length of the rod, unless you REALLY know what you're doing you're going to get yourself into all types of trouble.

                Shot peening is a good idea, but it doesn't do a lot. Knife edge a rod? Never heard of that. Only heard of knife edging a crank. Which is something you don't need to do. In fact many people recommend that you DO NOT do it as you could run into unfavorable results. Balancing the whole rotating assembly is plenty good.

                Teggyguy, what are you building this engine for? Is this your street car? A race car? A drag car? A track car? 12:1 is very high. You're not going to get it to run well on pump gas with a compression that high. Have you done the research on the things you'll want if you ran that high of compression? (appropriate cams, headwork, upgraded intake manifold, exhaust manifold, exhaust and extensive tuning)

                Comment


                  #9
                  lol knife edgeing i thought was possible too on the rods. not too sure on it but i thought i saw it being done or something. i could be wrong tho. but maybe i can find something about it. i had a SUPER old issue of hondatuning back then where they did the frankenstein killer b-series issue. where it went thru basically everything u need to know about building a bseries (short version).

                  reason i didn't bother asking what this guy is gonna do with some high ass 12:1 compression pistons is cuz i'm actually curious which one of these guys will actually go thru with it........ cuz its ridiculously high for street use. even for track use, u gotta have some really good pump gas or start dumping in some race gas.

                  and ps, i found some crower rods for the b17, but its 710+shipping, so kinda in the same ball park.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    x2 on what colin said. no need to upgrade the rods if your staying n/a. the stock rods are very strong. and stock pistons will also be fine and you can choose what compression you want staying oem. type r, b16, jdm or usdm will give you different compression ratios while staying fairly on the cheap side.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      First thanks for all your input everyone!

                      Heh yeah 12:1 is some high ass compression for sure...
                      Luckily my effective here in colorado is going to be somewhat less than the said static (calculated through the volumetric information available)
                      Nearly 1 whole 1:1 ratio less.
                      Either way, I do eventually plan on doing boost and thus why I decided to move the new rods in now anyways. I think I'm going to check the reviews on the endyn bumpstix and see if they have something good for my application. ATM I have p73-00 pistons in her, but considering the prices on rings I figured it'd be better to just upgrade anyways. I do plan on running a s300 with a wideband and tuning it up.
                      Currently I have
                      Titanium retainers.
                      Type-r springs and valves.
                      Type-r Intake manifold.
                      DC Sports 4-2-1 header (going to go when I do this build)
                      JDM-r cams
                      JDM-r pistons
                      Balanced/Polished crank
                      Aem shortram (may go full cold air if the weather ever changes)
                      Milled head like .002" i believe
                      And thats about it for motor...

                      just to prove:

                      Item title: Wiseco Pistons 94-01 Integra B18C STD 12.5:1 K593M81
                      (***I know this part description may look wrong but as we all know a b-series piston is a b-series piston lol****)
                      Web Address: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140312007383
                      Item number: 140312007383
                      Buyer User ID: ********
                      Seller User ID: titanmotorsports
                      Your total: $495.00
                      Hi teggyguy,
                      We hope you enjoy your latest purchase. The next step is pay the seller. Don't wait. Pay now to get your item as soon as possible.
                      Pay with PayPal, the safe and easy way to pay for your eBay purchases.

                      Wiseco Pistons 94-01 Integra B18C STD 12.5:1 K593M81
                      Wiseco Pistons 94-01 Integra B18C STD 12.5:1 K593M81
                      Sale price: $495.00
                      Quantity: 1
                      Subtotal: $495.00
                      Sales Tax: (none)
                      Shipping & Handling:
                      Other (see description) 0
                      Standard Int'l Flat Rate Shipping $85.00, Each Additional $40.00
                      Seller:
                      titanmotorsports [contact seller]
                      Seller Information:
                      Nirav Deliwala

                      Comment


                        #12
                        umm ok. yea u denver guys have to deal with a bit more complication with ur higher elevation but i didn't think it was that bad. but u said u eventually plan on going boost but do u plan on doing that on those pistons wiseco 12.5:1 pistons? cuz that raises a flag in my head.

                        but regarding those pistons tho....... someone correct me if i'm wrong, but wont machining be required to put these on b17 rods? i know he said he wants to get new rods. but will it be required to be done on aftermarket b17 rods as well to get them pistons onto them? i just wanna verify it so i ask that on my behalf.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          LOL! Yea I did say I plan on boosting. Those pistons will not be used in that case though. I know the static vs. effective and the maths for that. The most I'd run static when boosting would be 10:1 (which is high I know, but I prefer the high cr low boost, i know it requires more tuning)

                          Per the wiseco's mounting to the rods the rep at wiseco didn't say anything about that. The compression to motor is 11.5:1 - 12:1 according to their catalog.

                          I just talked to endyn and apparently I can get custom pistons and pop those on the b16 rods for the same effect. So I may not go the same direction. Luckily I can't loose much on those wiseco's anyways and I have a couple people that would probably buy them from me here in town too so either way, I can get the b16 rods for a couple bills and the custom pistons and go that way (just need to get a quote to decide).

                          Per the rods I'm still waiting to hear from eagle. Endyn does custom rods but they'd be from crower so still in that boat =|

                          Bloody b17's lol. I hope that I can get the rods situation taken care of soon.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by teggyguy View Post
                            LOL! Yea I did say I plan on boosting. Those pistons will not be used in that case though. I know the static vs. effective and the maths for that. The most I'd run static when boosting would be 10:1 (which is high I know, but I prefer the high cr low boost, i know it requires more tuning)

                            Per the wiseco's mounting to the rods the rep at wiseco didn't say anything about that. The compression to motor is 11.5:1 - 12:1 according to their catalog.

                            I just talked to endyn and apparently I can get custom pistons and pop those on the b16 rods for the same effect. So I may not go the same direction. Luckily I can't loose much on those wiseco's anyways and I have a couple people that would probably buy them from me here in town too so either way, I can get the b16 rods for a couple bills and the custom pistons and go that way (just need to get a quote to decide).

                            Per the rods I'm still waiting to hear from eagle. Endyn does custom rods but they'd be from crower so still in that boat =|

                            Bloody b17's lol. I hope that I can get the rods situation taken care of soon.
                            i hear ya. i think thats why most ppl take their b17's and go n/a. considering it probably has the best r/s ratio that is well balanced n everything. lots of praise regarding the crank too. i'd love to get a gsr later down the road, but i wanna start from stock and build it up instead of have it already be modified.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Yea for sure.

                              The crank from what I heard is as good if not better than the type-r crank.

                              What I may do is grab up some eagle h-beams for the b16 and go with the roller wave pistons. I can go that route and then I can boost down the road too, I'd have to have another set of custom pistons made, or I might just stick with the high cr na build and call it good and but a b18c for the boost stuff....or I could buy a b18a (like a 93 rs or something) and buy the ls/v head from endyn and go with a boosted ls/v beast hehe...

                              Alright so I have a VOTE:

                              stick with the wiseco's and stock rods or buy the b16a rods and sell my wisecos and buy roller waves from endyn that are custom.

                              damnit

                              Comment


                                #16
                                I'm just going to save up and buy the crower rods.

                                Crower makes decent stuff from what I've heard and since I won't be pushing 1000000hp through with boost I think I should be good.

                                so... what rod bearings do yall think I should hitup?

                                Comment


                                  #17

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Thanks for the free bump and lack of input? lol...

                                    So any estimates on HP with the build?

                                    Todo:
                                    Wiseco 12:1 piston kit
                                    Crower perfomance rods
                                    S300 & Wideband
                                    11lb flywheel and act clutch
                                    Endyn "Bump Stix" (cams) or possibly some crower cams. *Undecided could be some other cams entirely
                                    "Toda" replica 4-2-1 with 2.5" back exhaust
                                    Port and polish on the head
                                    Crower cam gears
                                    Walbro 255 fuel pump
                                    ~~~
                                    Has and will keep:
                                    Type-R Intake manifold
                                    Type-R springs
                                    Titanium retainers
                                    AEM Short ram/cold air
                                    GSR Injectors (Unless you think I need bigger)
                                    ~~~
                                    REMOVING:
                                    Power steering
                                    ABS

                                    I'm guessing 210 with a bomb tune. Tq... Iono may 130 140?

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I wouldn't build another 12:1 street B17 in Ca where 91 is the highest common octane one can find. Been there, done that.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Archon View Post
                                        I wouldn't build another 12:1 street B17 in Ca where 91 is the highest common octane one can find. Been there, done that.
                                        archon, he doesn't live in cali.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          I still think you should boost it. Altitude and Engine Performance; Why Turbocharge over NA Also, kinda repeating what Colin said earlier, what's the final purpose for the build going to be? So you already bought those pistons though?

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Yes I did buy the pistons.

                                            Unfortunately boost is too pricey for me right now bro. I would like to do it, but I would like to do it really really good.

                                            I don't wanna build a t-vtec without doing a ton of research and buying nice shit.
                                            Since my compression is low I need to do something to get my sht situated.
                                            High compression is always fun.

                                            Oh and it's going to be a toy car, meaning I will thankfully and happily stop daily driving it. (I've hated it and it wasn't supposed to even go this long).

                                            Regardless I've known all about the air charge density stuff lol believe me I want boost just not reasonable right now.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by teggyguy View Post
                                              Yes I did buy the pistons.

                                              Unfortunately boost is too pricey for me right now bro. I would like to do it, but I would like to do it really really good.

                                              I don't wanna build a t-vtec without doing a ton of research and buying nice shit.
                                              Since my compression is low I need to do something to get my sht situated.
                                              High compression is always fun.

                                              Oh and it's going to be a toy car, meaning I will thankfully and happily stop daily driving it. (I've hated it and it wasn't supposed to even go this long).

                                              Regardless I've known all about the air charge density stuff lol believe me I want boost just not reasonable right now.
                                              I understand mang, but it's not as expensive as you make it seem to be. You'll see once Glynn and I get goin (my goal is to be boosted by the end of summer), haha. But since you already bought the pistons, might as well throw them in! Look into injectors from an Acura RDX. They're about $150 for the set, new, and atomize a lot better than 450 RCs. A bunch of the K guys are running them on their all motor set-ups, so I figured I'd throw that out there. You just need some bumper light connectors from a Toyota (plug and play) and your set! Member redlineintegra has them on his all motor B18A1 build. "u can either machine your fuel rail to fit the injector, or machine the plastic of the injector to fit the rail. I had the injector machined, and used the factory O-rings and seals (minus the spacer on the top of the injector) and it fits just like stock. You just have to also remove the spacers between the fuel rail and the manifold (the brown-ish ones), as the RDX injectors are almost exactly that much shorter.":

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Dude that's f'in pimp! I'ma check that out.

                                                Thanks dude!

                                                I suppose I could just sell those puppies off and go boost...

                                                The beauty of my build is that all I'll have to change if I want boost is my pistons (which if I go boost ima got .020 over anyways so it's a win win)

                                                See for me boost means a resleeve with darton speed sleeves that have the girdle built into the top. = very expensive.
                                                + i want to do all the controlled waste gate for the s300 so I can change boost accordingly to how my driving will be. So i'm going to go boost and im going to be very particular about how I do it and I'm going to research all the top end and other such parts so I can make a very good combo that is built for altitude flexibility and power control as well as stability.
                                                I could just build a boost setup and blow my motor or take the time. Until then Ima go n/a =)

                                                Comment

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