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Wondering specific gains of ls/vtec

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Wondering specific gains of ls/vtec

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    Wondering specific gains of ls/vtec

    Hey, I am just starting to plan what I am doing with my engine, I have money now and it's steadily coming in through my job, with nothing to spend it on I know it's finally time! I have been throwing around ideas in my head, but I am still wondering the age old question, ls or ls/vtec? I know I'll have more torque with a built ls, but I may want to turbo it in the future. My main question is I can use either an itr head, b16 head, or a regular gsr head, what are the specific hp and toque gains for each head? I have found stuff that tells you round-about in general gains, but I want to know the exact gains on a stock head, so I don't spend $$$ on X head when I could have just bought Y head for the same gains for cheaper. I want to get the most for my money, but I'm not really looking to break any world records either. I just want something to back up the looks of my car. So, if I do ls/vtec can I get away with just the conversion and minor upgrades to the head and block to get the horsepower I'm looking for? I know you'll all help me out because you're all as crazy about g2's as I am. Thanx.

    #2
    -> Ls/Vtec

    TEG TIPS-> LS/Vtec

    Heads- What year? LS block- What year?
    B17a head=B16a head (Same thing.)
    ITR- superior head of course. (compared to B16, GSr head) You can't measure a head in HP without a block.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by tordrcl
      ITR- superior head of course. (compared to B16, GSr head)
      not necessarily.

      in terms of flow only, then stock vs. stock, yes.

      however, honda heads have TONS of room for improvement. look at the casting flaws on this brand spankin new ITR head. photos taken by Bert at Gettel Acura:





      almost looks like the mold shifted during casting.

      now take photos of a stock GSR head intake ports:



      as you can see, the GSR casting molds don't leave as many flaws. robert martin, a.k.a. "rocket" (owner of rocket motorsports), has this to say:

      My theory is that the molds for B16/ITR have been around since the late 80's so they might not be in as good of a shape as GSR molds which always cast better.
      if you're planning on having any headwork done at all, a GSR head with some port cleanup and better than stock valve job will usually outflow a stock ITR head that usually costs more alone than a gsr head and the valvejob combined.

      also, due to the quench pads in the combustion chambers, the gsr head allows for slightly higher compression than either the b16 or itr heads, so your final plans will partially play a role in which head you should use. if you're planning on a forced induction setup, you'd be better off using the b16/itr head. if you're planning on going strictly all-motor, the gsr will help more.

      Comment


        #4
        ITR head, i was thinkin more along the lines of the cams. Aren't the ITR cams an upgrade compared to the GSR cams? Armedferret>?
        And as for the GSr head, what about the B17 GSr head? same as the B16 right? Are the cams the same?

        Comment


          #5
          type r cams are more aggressive, yes, but tuning on FI setups with type r cams requires more attention due to the R cams' more aggressive overlap.

          b17 = pr3, same as b16. as for differences in the cams, if there is one it's fairly negligible.

          like i said....stock for stock, type r head is your best bet. however, for what you pay for even a used type r head, you can pick up a p72 gsr head (b18c1) AND have some decent headwork done, resulting in more gains.

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks for all the info. I have a '91 ls, so it's a '91 b18a1. Does the year of the head make a difference in the conversion or power, either? Is there certain years of the heads that are better than others? Thanks again for helping me out.

            Comment


              #7
              There is no way all ITR heads look that bad. Are you serious? I don't want to believe that.

              That looks like crap.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by IdntGlwIglisten
                There is no way all ITR heads look that bad. Are you serious? I don't want to believe that.

                That looks like crap.

                not all do, but sadly a very high majority of them do.

                think about it...the only difference between the ITR head and the b16 head (think the big hunk of aluminum right now, not anything they bolt in--just the part that's cast) is the better valve job and slight bowl cleanup (which you can see in the pictures i posted above--it's the shiny part just before the valve seats). the molds are exactly the same....they all come out of the same mold, and a few are set aside to be "improved" for Type R duty.

                you have to realize, the molds for the b16/ITR heads are from the late 80's and early 90's. there's bound to be issues with them at this point. the same molds were used for the 92-93 gsr head. in 94 they had a different head design for the gsr, and therefore newer molds are being used.

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