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Going back to Honda (w/ FI 14b on LSvtec.)

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Going back to Honda (w/ FI 14b on LSvtec.)

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    Going back to Honda (w/ FI 14b on LSvtec.)

    With my tail between my legs, I'm going back to Honda, after I blew up a 200HP 1G AWD turbo DSM, with overboost and a timing belt slip (piston to valve contact). Anyhow, I picked up another 90 DA, with an LSvtec. Now I have plans of swapping over the Mitsubishi turbo parts over to the LSvtec. So here's what I'm working with:


    1993 b18a, bored .5mm over.
    Block decked 5 thousandths.
    SRP 11.5:1 forged pistons.
    Micro polished rods with new oem rod bolts.
    Micro polished crank.
    Balanced assembly.
    All new oem rod and main bearings.
    New seals and gaskets.
    Type R oil pump.

    Endyne breather kit.
    2000 complete B16 head with Civic R intake cam.
    PWO ECU with Feels program.
    HKS S-AFC fuel controller.
    Prelude 320cc injectors.
    New B&M fuel pressure regulator and gauge.
    LS-VTEC plumbing done by Motorsport Techniques.
    LS water pump.
    LS timing belt.
    93 GSR transmission.
    Type R flywheel.
    Type GSR clutch with Type R pressure plate.
    New engine and transmission mounts.
    Radiator, alternator, and starter have been replaced.
    Racing Sports Akimoto intake.
    DC stainless 4-2-1 header.
    Greddy MX cat-back exhaust.
    High flow cat. welded into exhaust system.

    Here are the DSM 4G63t parts I've got that I'm swaping over to the LSvtec:
    1G DSM 14B turbo (internal wastegate)
    1G DSM DP
    1G DSM side mount intercooler
    DSM 450cc injectors
    1G DSM uncrushed blow off valve
    A.M. Air/Fuel ratio gauge
    1G DSM oil cooler & 2nd radiator fan
    A.M. Boost gauge
    XS Manual Boost controller
    Oil press gauge
    water temp gauge
    --------------
    Now I know that 11.5:1 compression is rediculous to boost on. (My previous DSM's CR was 7.8:1.) Anyhow, the LSvtec in the 90 DA I just picked up is unhealthy, and burns a quart of oil a week. Mr. HybridCRX will be doing the rebuild. Anyhow, I was wondering what type of pistons I should use on my block. (Considering the fact it's bored .5 over.)
    And please don't knock my 14b turbo. (1G AWD DSM's are hitting high 11's, and making 350+ hp with the measily 14b unported and unclipped.)
    Also what anti-knock countermeasure devices do you guys recommend on a boosted LSvtec? Also, the Feels chipped PWO ECU, is for NA. What should I do for engine management?

    Any thoughts are apreciated as to how I can safely configure a bosted LSvtec.

    P.S. All I'm looking for is 200HP at the wheels. (I want to spend more time on chassis/suspension.)

    #2
    Also, I was wondering that exhaust manifold do you guys recommend? (It's crossed my mind to modify a 4G63t exhaust manifold. But I should resist the temptation.)
    Also, as for the current condition of this NA LSvtec, it dyno'ed at:
    168 hp
    138 ft. lbs. torque

    Yeah, the numbers are crappy. It was burning oil, and was untuned. The engine was built by Hayward Motorsport Technique, by Mr. Wee.

    Also, does anyone want to trade a:

    DC stainless 4-2-1 header.
    Greddy MX cat-back exhaust. (2.5")
    High flow cat. welded into exhaust system.

    For B18 turbo exhaust manifold and complete STOCK exhaust system? (My girlfriend likes quiet cars, plus I'm getting old.)

    Comment


      #3
      didnt know you got rid of your integra?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by toohott4handlin
        didnt know you got rid of your integra?
        Yep. I traded the Maroon 90 DA w/Lsvtec for a 1G AWD FI DSM. The DSM blew up in less than half a year, so recently I stumbled across an awesome deal for a better LSvtec in a 90 DA, so I went with that. (I personally have been in love with the DA body--it's clean and handsome.)

        Anyhow, I left Honda for a while, went to seek a boosted AWD DSM, and now I'm back to Honda. (I've realized Honda parts are more reliable. Plus I've got more friends in the Honda scene than in the DSM scene if I needed help.)

        P.S.: Hey...uh...did you install my ACT 8.5 lbs flywheel on my old Maroon DA?

        Cheers!
        -Andrew

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          #5
          nope, that was jeff on the boards. What did you sell your old one for, and what did you pick this one up for? any pics?

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            #6
            Recent DA for $2,500. (There's more bells and whistles on the car I didn't mention above.) Old DA = staight trade for 1G DSM.
            Now, I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to take the turbo DSM parts and bolt'em onto the DA, without blowing it up. I have a feeling the key is in engine management.

            (Oh yeah, on the parts list on the original post, I made a mistake: it's an HKS Super AFR, not AFC.)

            My girlfriend has a digita camera--I'll try to get pics up this weekend.

            ---------------------
            Any replies, or help with the build anyone? LSvtec on boost is a tricky build.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by UCSlugRacerX
              Recent DA for $2,500. (There's more bells and whistles on the car I didn't mention above.) Old DA = staight trade for 1G DSM.
              Now, I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to take the turbo DSM parts and bolt'em onto the DA, without blowing it up. I have a feeling the key is in engine management.

              (Oh yeah, on the parts list on the original post, I made a mistake: it's an HKS Super AFR, not AFC.)

              My girlfriend has a digita camera--I'll try to get pics up this weekend.

              ---------------------
              Any replies, or help with the build anyone? LSvtec on boost is a tricky build.
              I'd rebuild the DSM. No they are no where near as reliable as any Honda but it's a lot less work in terms of custom fitting parts.

              Comment


                #8
                I thought about rebuilding the DSM, and that was what I was initially going to do. But funding for that project ceased (for odd reasons), plus, there are more problems than mentioned with the DSM that needed to be addressed. (I.e., rebuilt tranny, axels, transfer case, drive shaft, and more.)


                (But in general, the 1G DSM is a better platform to work with: closed iron block, 2.0ltrs, turbo, AWD, rear LSD, 202ft. lbs. torque stock.)

                Comment


                  #9
                  wondering how you can go back on stock exhaust with FI or even with an engine getting around 200hps... you'll get a lt of restriction. get 2.25 with dynomax silencer, sounds good not lound
                  nice setup though !

                  Comment


                    #10
                    My appologize if I offend, but I'm attempting to get over my ricer days. I'm trying to build a mild turbo set-up, safely holding 200hp. I'm not looking for fast ETs', or awesome dnyo numbers. I'm trying to build a reasonable machine, that can be streetable and compliant. (Which is why I'm still keeping the powesteering,(or going to try to) and I'm even going to attempt to install AC. My girlfriend would be driving the car too guys--I'm trying to keep it civilized.)

                    As for 200hp with stock exhaust, it's possible--I'm certain of it. Most of the usable powerband will be in the lower RPM, I assume. I want to lose the loud honk of the exhaust, and would rather hear the turbo spool, and blow-off valve instead.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      run stock exhaust with a downpipe dump valve..

                      it'll still be fast, but if you'd want faster, then open the valve.

                      dam.. i didnt know u sold it either..

                      u gonna come out to the next meet?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        btw, if you have money to get it tuned, or if you want the work to be done by a shop, racetune in hayward is a reliable shop, with a good rep.

                        www.racetune.net

                        and i work there now too..

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by tegboi
                          btw, if you have money to get it tuned, or if you want the work to be done by a shop, racetune in hayward is a reliable shop, with a good rep.

                          www.racetune.net

                          and i work there now too..
                          Thanks for the link Kevin. My mechanic--Anthony, and myself will be doing probably all of the work. But definitly a dyno tune is crucial to tuning out the bugs. I'm still wondering if I could get around using Hondata, and go with something else for engine management.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Use TurboEdit with the 1-wire VTEC or even better convert up to OBD1 and use Uberdata.

                            You can use Hondata but you have to use the older version with the PR3/PW0 ecu.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by UCSlugRacerX
                              DC stainless 4-2-1 header.
                              Greddy MX cat-back exhaust. (2.5")
                              High flow cat. welded into exhaust system.
                              how bout cash plus stock exhaust from my gsr?
                              u got pics of the exhaust & cat?

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by mav3rick478
                                how bout cash plus stock exhaust from my gsr?
                                u got pics of the exhaust & cat?

                                I primarily want to trade/sell it for a B-series turbo manifold, which mounts to a DSM 14b. The OEM DA exhausts are a dime-a-dozen.
                                As for pics, I was to get them posted yesterday, but didn't find time--I'll get them up soon .

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  actually if you want to just sell the header, how much?

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    u wont find a manifold for that...

                                    Best bet is to get a nice T3 manifold, call up road race (u are a DSM'er u know about them I am sure) and order a 14b turbie inlet and outlet (aka o2 housing) flange and have them welded on.

                                    I agree the 14b is very nice streetable turbo for a B18 (even though NONE have ever made 350hp on ANY dsm, whp or flywheel) as it makes for a much nicer low end and mid range than any hybrid that most of these guys use (cept it wont have the top end of it either).

                                    I was huge into DSM's a while back (still on Tuners actually, hehe) and turbo'd a D16 with a 14b, but never tried it on an LS. WE used hondata and I am convinced there is nothign better. If anything go OBD1 and get uberdate all for the price of a chip.

                                    THe KEY is engine management; with those 450's you will need somethign more than a afc to. Also make sure you lower that compression a bit, at least to 9.5... cause 200whp is easily do-able.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by noahrexion
                                      u wont find a manifold for that...

                                      I agree the 14b is very nice streetable turbo for a B18 (even though NONE have ever made 350hp on ANY dsm, whp or flywheel) as it makes for a much nicer low end and mid range than any hybrid that most of these guys use (cept it wont have the top end of it either).

                                      THe KEY is engine management; with those 450's you will need somethign more than a afc to. Also make sure you lower that compression a bit, at least to 9.5... cause 200whp is easily do-able.
                                      Uumm...go back to DSMtuners.com, and you'll find guys making 350 on 14b's. (Of course, often times their squeezing a 150 shot, on a built 4G63t.)

                                      According to Harberdashers' guide, he says,

                                      "If you have decided to use a Mitsubishi 14B or T25 turbo you have a couple manifold options. One option is to have the Garrett T3 flange removed from a manifold and having a flange for the 14B/T25 welded on. Of course this is only an option on tubular manifolds. Another option is to use an adapter, which bolts to the manifold with the Garrett T3 flange and the turbo bolts to the adapter."

                                      So in that sense, you're right. I've read-up on threads over at Honda-Tech, that are running a 4G63t exhaust anifold on an H23. (Could the 4G63t manifold be modified for a B16 head?)

                                      As for the 14b, there's alot of dispute on whether or not the turbo is any good. Although, due to its' small size, it spools up sooner, and is very streetable, and compliant. There's not an abhorrent amount of turbo lag, and they've been brought up to 20 psi if need be. (Although in the higher RPM range, as in 8,000 rpms' in Vtec territory, the 14b begins to run out of puff.)

                                      And yes, Hondata seems like it's the only option. I'm hesistant to go this route due to Hondata sticker prices. (How about maybe uberdata, or Turbo Edit?)

                                      Thanks for the help guys!

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        a 14B will be fine, you just won't have that really strong top end where as it'll mroe be mid end. Even on stock DSM's with minor upgrades, they seem to run out of steam past 6000

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Yep, pretty much what i was saying...

                                          The uber data is a good way to go to, much cheaper

                                          As for the 350hp thing, i can guarantee you that you are wrong about that. If you want to go ahead and say that one can make 350hp (btw you should specify whp or not, cause its a big difference) with 150 shot on the car thats something completely different. I know people have made around 300, but 350 is quite a leap from that, hehe.

                                          I do know about tuners, I dont need to visit. I am a wiseman on there (candela is my screenname) and I used to be #9 in the country with a 14b (12.2 et's) and I was only making about 273whp. Not that that is to relevant, Im just saying that 350 has not and will not be done on boost alone with a 14b. If you want to prove me wrong then feel free to try, just make sure you use a reliable source cause I would be quite interested to see how that is possible.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Ok. Uncle!
                                            It's 300 whp--not 350 whp. (I suppose to some degree I was exaggerating. I just didn't feel like giving the benefit of the doubt, so defended my little 14b.)
                                            And yes, a 150 shot nitrous, with a 14b is a different story.
                                            ---------------------

                                            In any case, would you mind if I bothered you in the future about engine management advice, set-up and tuning proceedures? From your DSMwiseman status you "probably" know what you're talking about, considering it's damn hard to be a DSMwiseman.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              well if you aren't being sarcastic, then no not at all...

                                              I didn't mean to come off as a dick if I did. I loved my many 14b's to Good luck,

                                              Austin

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                GRRRRR

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by noahrexion
                                                  well if you aren't being sarcastic, then no not at all...

                                                  I didn't mean to come off as a dick if I did. I loved my many 14b's to Good luck,

                                                  Austin
                                                  No, I was not being sarcastic. I was complementing you. It's tough getting across stuff like this over the internet. Words are so ambiguous in text form.(Your assumption though is justified though, as since the G2IC forum does have alot of harsh responses--I suppose assuming negatively is a knee-jerk reaction when people are given complements on the boards.)
                                                  Anyhow...I've read up on your stuff over at DSMtuners.com. You know your stuff.
                                                  Anyhow...as for engine management, I've got a million questions, and then some.

                                                  Comment

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